A disturbing development at the Ploughing match in Co Kildare was the joint venture by the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of Ireland within the archdiocese of Dublin.
The further apostasy of the Church of Ireland is obvious from the blatant popish flavour of the presentation. Above the door to the marquee there was a bell with 'Ava Maria' or 'Hail Mary' on it. Inside there was a popish grotto set aside as a place to pray full of candles and a crucifix. In the literature handed out instructions are given for prayer. The first point is to make the sign of the cross.
The Church of Ireland has given heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils, 1 Tim 4:1. How pathetic to watch them falling over themselves to unite with popery.
The conduct of the Presbyterian moderator in joining with the pope for joint worship leaves Presbyterians with no excuse to remain within Presbyterianism. The conduct of the Church of Ireland leaves those who profess to be saved within this church no alternative but to obey Scripture and come out from among them.
11 comments:
I was reading your blog and wondered if using icons/relics/pictures of Jesus in Church would constitute apostasy?
A little bit off topic.
As 'apostasy' means departure from the faith it would certainly be so for a denomination like the Church of Ireland to use icons/relics/pictures of Jesus Christ in church in the fashion that Romanism does.
It would constitute a breaking of the second commandment. This is why, to this day, Romanism changes the ten commandments by removing the second and dividing the last to have ten. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image … is a powerful argument against icons/relics/pictures.
There is a separate issue of using pictures of Jesus Christ when telling a Bible story to children. I personally don't agree with doing so. But there are other believers who do.
Brian McClung
"This is why, to this day, Romanism changes the ten commandments by removing the second and dividing the last to have ten."
Sir, what do you mean? It is a simple matter of numbering.
Please, read the following article from the Vatican - http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a1.htm - they don't seem to pretend that there are prohibitions concerning the WORSHIP of images.
I also can confirm that - "'You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything in heaven above or on earth" - is in the New Jerusalem Bible - check it for yourself: http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=2
Remember that bearing false witness is sinful.
Anonymous
I mean exactly what I have said. Romanism changes the ten commandments by dropping the second and dividing the tenth.
There are Roman Catholic publications in which this has happened. A catechism longed used in Ireland did so when a summary of the ten commandments were printed.
The way Romanism numbers the commandments is contrary to the way the Scriptures do so. Now why do you think Rome does that? Would it have anything to do with the images and icons that are so plentiful within Romanism?
It is not therefore a simple matter of numbering as you suggest. I have read the article on the Vatican website a long time ago.
Brian McClung
There are actually at least three versions of the Ten Commandments, Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant taken from Exodus Chapter 20 and Deuteronomy Chapter 5.
Sources:
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Torah/Ten_Cmds/ten_cmds.html
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect2chpt1ind.shtml
http://www.biblicalheritage.org/Bible%20Studies/10%20Commandments.htm
The commandments didn't come with numbers. There is no numerical division of the Commandments in the Books of Moses, but the injunctions are distinctly tenfold, and are found almost identical in both sources.
Anonymous
Sorry I haven't replied sooner. [By the way if you want to continue this conversation then you must use your name]
Whatever the version the one that is obviously wrong is Rome's.
The ten commandments are a summary of the moral law. They are not the sum total. Each one of the ten commandments are a category within themselves.
For example, the fifth commandment speaks about honouring your father and mother. There is also included in this requirement a far wider command to respect and honour as outlined in the answer to the Shorter Catechism question 64:
"The fifth commandment requireth the preserving the honour, and performing the duties, belonging to every one in their several places and relations, as superiors, inferiors."
However when you look at Rome's division of the ten commandments this system of categories is over turned. In order to remove the second forbidding graven images they split the tenth so as to keep ten commandments.
But the difficulty is that they have now duplicated the categories. According to Rome both the ninth and tenth commandments deal with covetousness.
This is destroying the whole layout and purpose of the ten commandments and only goes to demonstrate the nonsense of Romanism efforts to remove the second commandment.
Rev Brian McClung
The fact is that the Bible was written in Hebrew where this is recorded and there was no punctuation or numbering in the original texts. Interpreters add the numbers and the punctuation at their discretion based on sound scholarship. The fact that translators do not agree on where the numbers should be or the punctuation does not mean that any of these translators changed the Decalogue. All of the versions of the Commandments contain all ten.
Now I know that being an anti-Catholic without training in biblical hermeneutics you are using the translation differences to accuse the Catholic Church of idolatry. Such accusations are in themselves acting against the Decalogue by bearing false witness against Christ's Church. In doing so you have committed a grave sin and are in need of repentance and an apology to those you have attempted to offend with your lies.
If you had done a little research instead of being quick to condemn others you would have found that the Catholic Church forbids idolatry in any form. This is the official Catholic teaching from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Idolatry
2112 The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of "idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see." These empty idols make their worshippers empty: "Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them."42 God, however, is the "living God"43 who gives life and intervenes in history.
2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, "You cannot serve God and mammon."44 Many martyrs died for not adoring "the Beast"45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46
2114 Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who "transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God."47
Matthew John
Whatever the discussion about where the punctuation, etc. should be, the one that is evidently wrong is Rome’s version. It corrupts the categories as previously pointed out. You patently failed to address that point in your reply!
I don’t accept Rome as a Christian Church. She is part of that system mentioned in the book of the Revelation which will be the bride of Antichrist. I am happy to follow in a long line of people who think the same. Her cardinal doctrines are not based upon the Scriptures.
The issue we are discussing is not about idolatry but about the use of images in worship. The discussion we are having is not regarding the first commandment which forbids the worshipping of any other god but the second which forbids the use of images in the worship of God. All your quotations from the RC Catechism have nothing to do with the topic involved.
Again there is another clear example of a mixing of the categories which Romanism engages in by changing the numbering of the commandments. She is mixing the first and second so that she can explain that the reference to images, etc. is a referring to idolatry and not a reference to how we worship God.
God is a Spirit and they that worship Him must worship him is spirit and in truth, John 4:24. Images, etc. have no part to play in the worship of God.
Take a look at what happened to Israel at the foot of Mt. Sinai when they set up the golden calf. They were not breaking the first commandment but the second. They did not turn away from Jehovah to worship another god. They sought to worship Jehovah by the use of an image. This was what God and Moses were displeased with:
Exodus 32:4,5 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.
Aaron announces that this is the god that brought them out of Egypt and that the next day would be a feast day unto the LORD or Jehovah. They evidently were not turning away from worshipping the LORD but they were employing an image in the worship of the LORD and worshipping Him through the golden calf.
There is not much difference between what Israel were doing at the foot of Mt Sinai and what Romanism does with all her veneration of images, etc.
Our Protestant forefathers discovered this in generations past when they got a copy of the Scriptures in their own mother tongue and read the Bible for themselves. They realised that the Bible and Romanism don’t teach the same thing!
Brian McClung
Please get rid of my comments in case they mislead anyone.
Dear Rev. McClung,
To me, the fact that the Catholic church reveres Mary as the mother of God, that they pray to her (and "saints") and even teaches that she was the product of a virgin birth, is the greatest proof of apostasy.
God bless you.
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