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Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble:

for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand, Joel 2:1.


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Thursday, 3 May 2012

Reasonable force!!!

An inquest jury in Belfast has found that SAS soldiers 'acted in a controlled and professional way' when they shot dead two IRA members near farm buildings close to Loughgall, Co Armagh in October 1990. A victory for righteousness and common sense!

The inquest ruled that the IRA men's own actions had contributed to their deaths. It ruled that Grew and McCaughey: "put their lives in danger by being in the area of the sheds in the vicinity of a stolen car, which was expected to be used in terrorist activity." It went on to say that: "they were both armed with guns, wearing gloves and balaclavas and were approaching soldiers who believed that their lives were in immediate danger."

See the following reports:

Terrorist sympathisers argued that it was part of a 'shoot to kill' policy being operated by the security forces. 

These members of the murderous IRA received their just desserts. It's a pity that the same didn't happen to the rest of them as well. I for one don't have a problem with a shoot to kill policy for terrorists of any description.

4 comments:

Gerry Leddy said...

Oh dear, Mr Jeffrey Donaldson MP on his website 'latest video' would not agree with you, it would seem. He starts of my saying that Christianity teaches us that human life is valuable, all human life, and that the taking of human life is wrong. http://www.jeffreydonaldson.org/

Now I understood that he was a Bible Believing Christian

You dont have a problem with a shoot to kill policy, and christianity teaches him that all life is valuable and taking it is wrong.

what does your Christianity teach you that differs from his christianity

Gerry

Rev Brian McClung said...

Gerry Leddy

Which video is that? Was it one where he was speaking about this incident or a different one?

The Word of God forbids murder. This is the Saviour's teaching and explanation in Matthew 19:18 of the 6th Commandment. Which is entirely in keeping with the teaching of the moral law in Old Testament times as well.

The Bible however warrants the taking away of life in three circumstances:
1. Self defence;
2. Capital punishment;
3. Just war.

State forces pursuing terrorists, of whatever hue they are, and ending their lives is entirely in keeping with the teaching of Scripture. It is not only permitted but encouraged, cf. Rom 13:1-4:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Take particular note of vv3,4. Rulers are to be a terror to the evil doer. They are said to bear the sword. They are called 'a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil'.

When terrorists go out to pursue evil with the intention of taking away someone else's life and they run up against the legitimate forces of the state and they lose their lives I don't see anything wrong with that.

Brian McClung

Gerry Leddy said...

read that Romans 1-4 it seems to legitimize Hitler and anyone of that time who would have went against Hitler whose power came from God,would be damned. the powers that be are ordained of God.Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. so Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg and his fellow officers were damned in God's eyes.

sort of defeats the notion that your God is a just God.

am curious to read where in The Bible however warrants the taking away of life in three circumstances:
1. Self defence;
2. Capital punishment;
3. Just war.

for instance you mention self defence - now Jesus taught the opposite - Matthew 5:38-39
King James Version (KJV) 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Seems to me that Mahatma Gandhi had more in common with Christ's teaching than Christians have.


as to Jeffrey Donaldson it is the video on his website described as being the latest video the top one where he is on his feet and the words I used are his first words.

You refer to the moral law of the old testament, which legitimises child slavery and adult slavery as well, hardly a good benchmark for today's living is it?

Gerry

Rev Brian McClung said...

Gerry

I am willing to have a proper discussion with you about these things but not if you are going to be so pathetically unreasonable!

If you want to think that Rom 13:1-4 justifies Hitler then you are welcome to your ignorance. I have more profitable things to do with my time.

I have no intention of repeating what you can easily read elsewhere. So please go to www.reformed.org/documents/shaw and read chapter 23.

Examples of warrant to take life:
1. Self defence - Exodus 22:2,3. If the thief is killed breaking into a house at night, no blood is to be shed for him. If he escapes and is caught in daylight there is no grounds for killing him.

2. Capital punishment for criminal murder- Genesis 9:6, Exodus 21:12,13. Different laws however pertained for involuntary manslaughter.

3. Just war - Genesis 14; Exodus 17. When the Roman soldiers believed the preaching of John the Baptist and Paul the apostle they never were told that being a soldier was wrong and that they had to leave their calling. John the Baptist told them to do no violence and be content with their wages. He called upon them to act in a particular way.

The text you quote has no bearing upon any of these three examples so I don't see the issue.

Maybe you could show me where the 'moral' as opposed to the 'ceremonial' and 'civil' law in Israel teaches the points you raise. There were three laws functioning throughout part of the Old Testament times.

You are evidently an expert Gerry so you will be able to show me where it is that the 'moral' law teaches these issues that you raise. Maybe you could give reasons why you believe this is part of the 'moral' law and not the 'civil' law of Israel.

I look forward to your reply!

Brian McClung